|
 DUFF
MCKAGAN
AS BASSIST FOR GUNS N'
ROSES, HE WAS PART OF ONE OF THE WILDEST
ROCK BANDS OF THE LAST 20 YEARS. NOW, WITH
TWO OF HIS GUNS BAN DMATES, HE'S BACK...
WITH ALL GUNS BLAZING. CAN VELVET REVOLVER
TAKE THEM TO THE TOP AGAIN?
WORDS: STEVEN ROSEN PICTURES:
JOHN McMURTRIE
Back in the 80s, Duff McKagan
was an émigré from the fledgling
grunge scene of Seattle, Washington, leaving
the plaid shirts and just-below knee length
pants of Seattle for the bright lights,
big hair of Hollywood, California. There
he met up with a group of musical misfits
including Slash, Axl Rose, and Steve Adler,
and formed Guns N' Roses. Their story -
a rise to global success soured by drink,
drugs, violence and personal conflict -
is well known. What remains is Duff's relationship
with Slash.
Though the two have separated
for years at a time - Duff pursuing a solo
career and his own band Loaded, while Slash
formed Snakepit and worked on various other
projects - they've always maintained a spiritual
connection. And now Duff is back with his
guitar mate in Velvet Revolver, pounding
out that bass groove along with ex-Guns
drummer Matt Sorum, joined by the relatively
unknown guitarist Dave Kushner, and fronted
by former Stone Temple Pilot Scott Weiland.
Duff is no John Paul Jones
or Paul McCartney, but on the debut Velvet
Revolver album, Contraband, out on 17th
May, he mixes the elements of those players
along with an R&B-styled approach that
singles him out as, well, maybe the loosest
in-the-pocket bassist you've ever heard.
Not a master technician nor an elaborately
intellectual music theorist, he is, nonetheless
a master in supporting guitar-driven music
and understands the true role of the bassist
- to lock in with a bass drum and drive
the energy. On the album there is a harkening
back to the Jerry Shirley/Greg Ridley combo
in Humble Pie, or the Kenny Jones/Ronnie
Lane section in the Small Faces. Put simply,
he rocks.
 TG:
All the music
on the album has this sense of authority
and urgency.
Duff: "Yeah, it just really happened
organically the way the songs came together.
Some of the songs we had before Scott came
but once Scott came in we just hit a groove.
We'd sit there and Matt would start a drum
riff and I'd start a bass riff and Dave
would start something and Slash would chime
in, and there'd be a riff and Scott'd start
singing a chorus. A verse would come naturally,
a bridge, it just seemed like it was meant
to be for all of the songwriting. It was
easy, we wrote the record in no time."
TG: Was there a different
dynamic in this creative part of the process
than there was with Guns?
Duff: "Yeah,
I mean that main chemistry of Matt, Slash
and I is there. We did this benefit about
a year ago[June 19 at the El Rey Theater
in Los Angeles] for Randy Castillo [ex-drummer
for Ozzy and Motley Crue who died from cancer
in 2002] and we hadn't played together for
a long time. I had a band called Loaded,
I was living in Seattle, I was going to
school and Loaded was just something for
me to keep playing. Matt called me about
this benefit. We did a rehearsal and they
announced we were playing and it sold out
in like ten minutes. [Aerosmith's] Steven
Tyler got up and sang [on Mama Kin] and
there was just this intangible thing that
we have."
TG: What is this `thing'
you share with Matt? How do you describe
it?
Duff: "It's
a pocket. He makes me play better. The bar
is raised with both of us. We all keep raising
the bar for each other and there's chemistry
there, it's not like we're forcing something
and going to get into some prog rock weird
timing."
TG: So what are you
trying to do?
Duff: "It's
a fierce machine, man. We're striving for
John Paul Jones and John Bonham, we're striving
to be a rhythm section to be reckoned with.
And I know we are. At the moment, rhythm
sections are kind of non-existent. Audioslave
has a great rhythm section, a couple good
solid players, but with Matt I think we
have a bit more character. When we record
or we're writing, I sit there and watch
his kick drum and that develops my bass
line. And it changes his kick drum patterns:
he'll see me watching his kick drum and
he'll change something."
TG: How did you record
the bass for the Velvet Revolver album?
Duff: "We all go in and play
live and a lot of stuff is keeper, bass-wise.
Matt had about four kits there for different
songs, he has like a hundred different snares,
and we get a drum sound and then we go for
the bass. We recorded to tape and used ProTools
for Scott's vocals afterwards but he sang
to tape a lot. So it was all of us playing
and Scott singing. On Fall To Pieces,
that was one piece bass-wise, You Got
No Right was one bass piece.
"There's a song called Superhuman
where I actually doubled the bass, I played
it twice. I put it through this fuzz pedal
and it made it almost like an [Roland] 808.
It's almost inaudible but it'll rattle your
nuts. [Note: we think he really means the
Roland TB-303, a sampler and bass synthesizer
that gave dance music it's sub-bass frequencies.]
Also that's one of a few tracks where everybody
has a de-tuned E string [low E string lowered
to D]. We also
did that on Slither and Headspace
TG: Was there a main
bass/amplifier rig that you used?
Duff: "I used what I always use,
my Fender Jazz Special. The original that
I use is the one I bought in '86 when we
got our first record advance. There's nothing
special about the guitar but it has my tone."
 TG:
What is that Duff tone?
Duff: "Well, it cuts through.
It has a lot of nice low end but it has
a top, the attack, and it's almost percussive.
And it became that way because [Guns drummer]
Steven Adler played a lot, we rehearsed
a lot, and one of the rehearsals would just
be Steven and I. His meter wasn't great
so I'd almost be leading him so it became
very percussive how I played. I'm a fan
of punk rock but I'm also a fan of a lot
of R&B and Prince, so I like the high
[mimics the sound of a thumb slap on a string]."
"So I evolved from my first amp, which
was a GK400RB then I raised that to the
800RB, and now I have a 2001RB. [Note: Daniel
Elliott, from Gallien-Krueger describes
the 2001 head as a 1080 watt dual mono amp
comprised of two 540-watt amps that can
be utilized either separate or bridged.
There is a separate 50-watt amp powering
a tweeter in a bi-amp situation. The cabinet
is a 4x10 RBH model fitted with GK speakers
and front-ported. Live, Duff will take out
three tops, two for actual use and one as
backup. In addition, he'll stand in front
of four 4x10 RBI I cabs. Elliott describes
the rig as brighter and punchier than other
bass setups. "It's more efficient.
It cuts through without being overbearing"].
On the record I used a secret weapon..."
TG: Can you tell us
what that is?
Duff: "Well,
I used another track. Instead of using a
fuzz pedal, I used a Marshall JCM 800 guitar
amp and then of course direct, DI. [Note:
According to group tech Adam Day, Duff in
fact used a 1987 50-watt four input non-master
volume Marshall I used that on pretty much
everything "The GK is my main amp and
that's what you hear most but on certain
tracks it's a bit more overdriven than others,
and that's the Marshall."
TG: On the album, is
that intro bass line on Fall To Pieces
that Marshall sound you're describing?
Duff: "Yeah.
I played it with the idea of putting cello
in there. I could just play the root note
but me being me I wanted to find the riff
that goes around that thing. It just came
to me, it just happened. It wasn't like
I went home and worked on it, it just happened.
We thought it would be great to have a cello
with that line but everybody liked the bass
just being the bass and it's more of a sparse
song."
TG: That opening figure
has a Paul McCartney feel to it...
Duff: “There
is a bridge in You Got No Right where
I went for a Paul McCartney type of deal.
I almost used a Hofner in there. We rented
one for the day."
TG: Where did that idea
to use the Marshall come from?
Duff: "I said
to Ryan, the engineer, who worked with Brendan
O'Brien for years, `Ryan, I just really
want my bass sound to cut through.' Because
Scott's got a whole different vocal than
Axl and he sings in different places, so
I wanted to cut through. It didn't mean
I wanted to be the loudest guy in the track,
but it had to cut through. So how do we
do that? And how do we update my sound a
little bit too? I tried all these different
distortion pedals and shit, there were some
cool ones, the MXR Ratt box was a cool distortion
pedal, but it was really a matter of trying
stuff out. And Ryan broke out this JCM 800
and there it was, the sound I was looking
for. I think they used SM57s.
"Once I get my tone,
I don't like to know a lot of technical
shit. I just want to play. That's why I've
never become a real techie as far as gear
and shit because I don't want to know the
inner workings. I had a real bad experience
with an active pickup. When we filmed live
for MTV at the Ritz, the first song was
It's So Easy. Kramer gave me this
bass they wanted me to play and it was active.
Its So Easy starts off with dnnna dnnna
dnnna do dnnna drinna do [sings opening
bass figure and air fingers the bass]...
The bass stopped working so I threw it and
got my Fender back. So from then on I want
my bass with a cord going into an amp; if
it's two amps that's fine. And I'll probably
play live that way"
 TG:
So you'll take out the GK and the Marshall
live?
Duff: "Yeah,
I think so. But the GK does have enough
overdrive to make up for it live. With the
new 2001, they have an overdrive. I could
have just went there but for the recording
situation it was pretty bitchin'.
TG: It's sometimes difficult
to modernise your sound while still maintaining
the elements that define it...
Duff: "I play
the way I play but now, there are less fills
than I've ever played before. I had to find
a way to play and still be me and again,
with Scott's vocal lines there's not a lot
of space to do things. Less is more with
me; the groove is the most important thing.
Steven and I would listen and play along
to Cameo or Sly and the Family Stone. The
groove is the most important thing and I
think every bass player should start with
the groove. There are a lot of guys who
learn how to start slapping... You've got
to really feel the drummer and luckily I
have Matt Sorum as the drummer. He's badass
and we can create this pocket you can almost
feel; it's like one of those egg chairs
you just get inside, you know?"
TG: What
is it about GK that you don't find in Ampeg
or SWR, for instance?
Duff: "It's
just that I have this sound and I love it.
And now they have this 2001 that I really
like and I'm not gonna change at this point.
And they're so dependable. The 800Bs that
I took through hell and high water, they've
been through riots, they've been through
everything, and never broke once or went
down. I still have them. I do like how Ampegs
sound, don't get me wrong, but the tubes
in those things weigh 500 pounds and everybody
uses them. Gallien-Krueger: me and Flea
use them and he gets that high endy thing
- I go for a whole different tone than he
does."
TG: Do you listen to
players like Flea?
Duff: "Sure.
John Entwistle. A really great player I
think is overlooked a little bit is Nick
[Oliveri] from Queens Of The Stone Age.
That guy's a fucking genius. He gets the
groove and where to play and where not to
play, and where to play a weird seven or
play off of the guitar. You can argue that
the guy from Primus [Les Claypool] is the
best bass player in the world. Technically,
sure, but it's kind of goofy, you know?
I'm not gonna fuckin' be groovin' on that
shit in ten years and it's not gonna make
me want to fuck my wife. Y'know what I mean?"
TG: You mentioned John
Paul Jones, what about someone like Jack
Bruce?
Duff: "Was
he influential on me? No, not so much, that
was kind of like my older brother's music.
Too hippie. I've come to realize how good
of a bass player he was in that realm. 'Cos
I played drums first, then guitar, and then
moved to Los Angeles to get my foot in the
door. Because in '84 it was all Steve Vai
and whatshisname with the scalloped out
- Yngwie - and I was more a Johnny Thunders
guitar player, and it was like, ‘Well,
that ain't gonna work.' And my drum kit
was a piece of shit and I'd played bass
in a couple other bands up in Seattle and
toured and stuff. And the first band that
formed was Guns and that's when I really
became a bass player and had to come to
reckoning, ‘Who am I as a bass player?’”
 TG:
Were you listening to bass players who were
your contemporaries?
Duff: "I listened
to more grooves, an aggressiveness. [LA
punks] Fear, the album was a great record
- did I steal bass lines from that? No.
Paul Simonon from The Clash, the attitude
of that guy was sick. Great bass player?
Fuck, no. But for passing notes and things
like that I listen to the blues, I listen
to R&B, James Jamerson. I just listen
for clever ways and ideas, `Oh, that's cool,
I can use that in this song.' There are
songs on Appetite... that started
from a bass groove, more funkier. Rocket
Queen, just groove stuff. And then Slash
and I had this thing where we worked off
each other and we'd never have to talk about
notes. `Should we go to the F there?' One
of the comments Scott made when he first
came into this group was, `You and Slash
don't even fucking talk.' We'd stand this
close to each other and fuckin' almost put
our heads together and it's osmosis. And
he said, 'I've never seen anything like
it.' We're like minded and we know how each
other plays and it's all cool."
TG: Was there a similar
dynamic in the Guns N' Roses approach and
what you're doing now?
Duff: "If you
don't try and contrive a song and you're
a true rock'n'roll kind of `fuck you' guy,
you're going to have a real record. Every
song on Appetite... was autobiographical
for one of us, we all wrote lyrics: this
is very real life, very now. Dirty Lil’
Thing is about Paris Hilton and a lot
of songs are about Scott's marriage and
his drug problems.
TG: The first Guns record
represented a truly maverick sound and approach
in comparison to all the hair bands at the
time. And, in a way, Contraband is fulfilling
that same position, a rock record being
released amidst the nu metal and grunge
that's so pervasive.
 Duff:
“Yeah, maybe, that would be nice.
If it all goes according to the big plan
that would be awesome. But you know what?
I know we have a diehard basic fan base
that will come to the shows and hang from
the rafters and that's gonna be where we
get off. If the places start getting bigger
where we're playing, so be it, that's great."
TG: The track Big Machine
has this tremendous drum and bass groove.
How did that song develop?
Duff: "We just
got into rehearsal and I started playing
the intro and Matt starts doing his thing,
Slash starts playing and one thing led to
another and we had kind of this monstrous
thing. We gave it to Scott and he put it
through ProTools and chopped the shit out
of it and all of a sudden it's this whole
different song. But to him this is how it
made sense and now its one of my favourite
songs on the record. And Matt used a couple
different drum sets on that song so it wasn't
a full take [live performance]. So we got
a little bit more creative on that one...
"We did this cover
of Nirvana's Negative Creep where everything,
vocals, is absolutely live. There are no
overdubs. And it kicks some fuckin' ass.
I don't think its going to be on the record
and it was like, `Why don't we just do the
whole record this way, man?' Because it's
got everything in there. It's killer."
TG: Was Nirvana and
that whole grunge movement an influence
on you?
Duff: "I'm
from Seattle and my friend worked at SubPop
and she'd send me all the singles and records
when I was here [Los Angeles] when Guns
was starting. And when I heard Bleach,
I knew here was a band that was going to
develop. Then they got [Dave] Grohl and
then I got an advanced copy, like four months
before it came out, of the big record [Nevernind].
It was a cassette and I played the shit
out of this thing. That's more my roots:
it didn't influence me from then on.
 TG:
Is your playing behind Slash and Dave different
than what you played behind Slash and Izzy
or Slash and Gilby?
Duff: "I had
a lot more room to fill with Izzy because
Izzy was a very sparse guitar player. Slash
and I play off each other a lot. In his
solos I go places where I know he likes
to be. It's just innate and you can't ask
me what it is. I might go to a 5th of the
root note to pick up his guitar solo and
he'll have to play around a 5th. And then
move it back down to the root note so it
resolves the solo. Or I might do more fills
during his guitar solo because it adds more
chaos to the section. You'll notice that
once you listen to the record, you'll go,
`Oh, there's the 5th he was talking about;
oh, there's the fills he's talking about.
He didn't fill during the whole song and
all of a sudden he's filling during the
guitar solo.' But it creates this thing
that we've just always had. I'm just very
proud of the sound and the groove we've
created; its very aggressive. I've been
kickboxing for nine years and I feel like
we're fighters in a ring as a rhythm section.
Basically we're a straight up rock'n'roll
band."
TG: Are you excited
about the tour coming up?
Duff: "Yeah,
that's what we're about. But we know it's
important to re-establish old contacts and
establish new ones. I think it's just fate,
things happen for a reason, and us getting
back to play together at this time is meant
to be...
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